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Offline jodieh12

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Kids punishment
« on: March 20, 2014, 03:26:54 PM »
Have any of your kids done something at school that was punishable? If so what was the school punishment and did you punish them as well? If so what punishment did you/would you dish out?

The behaviour probably warrants an internal exclusion which is where the kid goes in a room (with other kids who have misbehaved) for the day and isn't allowed to mix with their form.

Looking forward to hearing from others!!!

Offline Foggy

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2014, 03:59:31 PM »
O has a sensory disorder ( on the autism scale ) so gets a bit of leeway -- but when he gets too much he spends an hour with the SENCO or the Headmaster, away from class.  Once, when he hit a teacher, he was sent home (fortunately this behaviour has not been repeated).

I do not punish him as well, as the matter had been dealt with and we move on. I did, however, let him know that I was disappointed.

If he gets out of hand at home he loses privileges, like the use of his iPad for the evening / day.

Offline jodieh12

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2014, 04:01:25 PM »
Thanks foggy yes I'm unsure whether I'm being unfair punishing her again but I will because I'm ruddy mad!!!!

Any other opinions?

Jo

Offline Cushion Plumper

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2014, 07:36:15 PM »
I was mortified when I got a phone call from school last Wednesday to say that I needed to attend as a matter of urgency due to my son's behaviour!  It turned out he'd punched and kicked a boy in his class and given him a black eye.  Despite my son acting in retaliation they decided the level of violence he used would probably be a 3 day exclusion but the Head Teacher was not available.

This was confirmed on Thursday, so Thursday was classed as an internal exclusion where he worked in the Head Teacher's office all day with her and then he was externally excluded on Friday and Monday.  As a result he's had his PS3 and ipad confiscated (still not got it back) and I've told him he can't go on the 3 day PGL trip in June unless the school inform me his behaviour has improved.

Some of my family think the school were too harsh but I've always decided that I will support the school in their decisions as much as I can as I don't want him getting the message that he can play the school off against me if I always back him up as opposed to them.  I do agree on this occasion that he used excessive violence and am supportive in their decision and I think it's better he learns this lesson now and be suspended from primary school instead of senior school  :-\

I've also let him know how disappointed I am and that he's behaved exactly how the press like to portray kids from single parent families and this is against everything I've worked hard to achieve for him! (thought I'd lay it on extra thick to make him feel really guilty in the hope he won't do it again and it seems to have worked as he's been working really hard this week  ;))

I was absolutely fuming at the time too and the Head Teacher did make me feel a bit better by telling me that although we are responsible for our children we cannot be responsible for their behaviour and it wasn't my fault, lol
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Offline jodieh12

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2014, 08:16:51 PM »
Ah cp I've been waiting for your wise words!  I wasn't sure whether to punish twice or not.  Anyway she has to see the teacher before classes tomorrow to discuss and I think the waiting is worse than what will happen, she's laid on her bed all evening just staring into space and she said she's reflecting on it!!

So the punishment is she's had all gadgets removed from when she gets home froms school to when she leaves for school the next day for a week (it wi be taken off her Friday and given back Monday) and she also had plans for Saturday and Sunday and of course they've had to be cancelled as she's grounded.  I think it's slightly harsh but I want to send a very firm message.  I've also said next incident (if there is one?) she won't be allowed to go on end of year trip to Alton towers or similar.

Thanks guys

Jo

Offline Silky

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2014, 08:30:10 PM »
If mine got in trouble with school / the police / anyone outside the home, yep, they'd get a ruddy good telling off here too, and they know it. Funnily enough when they do something wrong, I ask them what punishment i they'd give and it's invariably worse than mine, so they really do realise their behaviour's been unacceptable.

I do hate it how gadgets play such a role in our kids' lives currently but on the positive side it makes discipline so much easier - you'd think I'd cut H's arm off recently when I confiscated her phone for 24 hours!

Was N the only one in trouble?

Silky x
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Offline jodieh12

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2014, 08:38:26 PM »
No she was retaliating but she got detention last year for retaliation so I need to step it up a gear.  Given that she's in year 8 and all the teachers sing her praise and say she's so clever and very well mannered it just frustrates me that this has happened!!!

Kids, who'd have 'em!!!

Offline WT4

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2014, 08:43:01 PM »
Hasn't happened yet that I've felt the need to double up on a school punishment.  I've always reinforced that if the school thinks the behaviour warrants punishment then the child should take on the chin and move on. 

Frankly, I think schools tend to over-react anyway ... except to bullying - they do seem to rather just hope bullying will go away in a puff of faery dust.

The issue of a child being punished for self-defence sends a worrying message that bears further discussion.

BTW: Would the school impose additional punishment for an incident at home?

Did have one occasion recently where my child was clear on the punishment but unclear as to what exactly he was being punished for ... had to call the school on that one to make sure they understood the value of complete communication.  Intervention by a more senior staff member sorted that.  Turns out, as a result of that incident (and others similar I imagine) the teacher in question will not have their contract renewed after easter.
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Offline CB2

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2014, 08:43:39 PM »
Calder was in trouble with school a few weeks ago, nothing major but it has been building up and so decide to take away all electronic gadgets for a week, he was not allowed in his bed apart from sleeping and the only choice he had was reading with me downstairs, watching TV I was watching or a film I wanted to watch.

He hated it, and hopefully now realises that I will follow through if he is in trouble at school and next time it will be 2 weeks. 

Not sure what I would do if he ever got excluded !!

I find taking one gadget is no good it has to be all or nothing.
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Offline Cushion Plumper

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2014, 09:11:11 PM »
... and all the teachers sing her praise and say she's so clever and very well mannered it just frustrates me that this has happened!!!

Kids, who'd have 'em!!!

This is exactly the same with my son and why it's even more annoying.  Everything I've ever tried to enforce seems to have gone in one ear and out the other!



The issue of a child being punished for self-defence sends a worrying message that bears further discussion.


I agree with you to some extent but in my lad's case his self defence went too far.  He could have done the one kick or punch and run away afterwards, but unfortunately, the red mist came down and he carried on raining the blows.  He needs to learn that self defence is fine but continued anger and rage and carrying on assaulting is not.  This isn't the first time he's been in trouble for this, he knocked a lad out with one punch last year who was making insulting comments to him about his dad not loving him etc and he didn't get suspended for that.  I sort of let that one go... but I can't with this one.




I find taking one gadget is no good it has to be all or nothing.

I agree completely, taking one is not enough.  What on earth would we do if they didn't have gadgets!  I can't remember what my parents did with me...  oh yes I can, I got a good hiding and wasn't allowed out to play.
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Offline Cushion Plumper

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2014, 09:13:56 PM »
Actually, having now read this thread I'm sort of relieved it's not just me having these problems  ;D  I was starting to feel a bit of a failure!
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Offline WT4

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2014, 09:28:32 PM »
The issue of a child being punished for self-defence sends a worrying message that bears further discussion.
I agree with you to some extent but in my lad's case his self defence went too far. 

Aye, every case is individual and deserves proper examination ... which includes complete & frank discussion.

There are situations where only the complete anihilation and humiliation of the assailant will prevent a repeat ... I guess I'm talking about bullying here, rather than a one-off.
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Offline scatily

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2014, 11:26:16 PM »
CP loving your style laying it on thick with the single parent stereotypes, made me almost choke on my drink!

Offline Blue Sky

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2014, 01:51:51 PM »
This thread has made me think! 

I am quite strict and it never occured to me that I wouldnt punish her at home for bad behaviour at school  :o (although I have never been in that position - yet).

Now, I am thinking that a double punishment isn't fair. The schoool believes the punishment is appropriate. And, as mentioned earlier, school doesnt punish her for bad behaviour at home.   

However, I guess that would depend on the severity of the crime; and if it was a repeat offence......

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Offline Stuart

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2014, 03:10:27 PM »
I prefer to find out the root cause of what the behaviour was if anything happens, for me communication is the tool I will always use and not much else, sometimes it's important to back the school up, but also find out what the issue was so it does not happen again.

Stuart
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Offline LCSS

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2014, 11:24:17 PM »
You have to find out what it was all about and make your own judgement on whether a double punishment is merited.
My son has been in trouble before and been internally excluded for 1 then 2 days.  The first time, I was supportive of the school and we had a long serious talk and he was in the doghouse.  The second time, I thought the school overreacted to the situation and I told the year head so.  That time we had a talk, but more focused on how to stay out of trouble, rather than focus on what he had done, and I did not punish him.

Generally, I think schools now can be quite over the top in their reactions to and sanctions of certain behaviour.  What used to be a detention in my day is now worth a couple of days exclusion.  It seems exaggerated to me.

I also have an issue with getting into trouble for sticking up for yourself.  It doesn't seem right that little or no allowance is made for provocation, and the one who retaliates is often the one who is caught and then not necessarily believed.




Offline Foggy

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2014, 10:27:33 AM »
I also have an issue with getting into trouble for sticking up for yourself.  It doesn't seem right that little or no allowance is made for provocation, and the one who retaliates is often the one who is caught and then not necessarily believed.


Definitely agree with that one.  Because O is so easily baited there are a couple of kids at school who try to provoke him and, if he bites, he is the one seen to be in the wrong.  Luckily he has a posse of class mates who will speak up for him.


Offline AnnK

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2014, 02:54:31 PM »
Children need boundaries, I think your "additional punishment" at home was entirely appropriate.

My son, aged 9 yrs., refused to do his homework this week, adopted a very arrogant attitude and his Ipad went on sabbatical to his older sister's house.  The next evening he was "bored", I told him to find something to do, he moaned, I ironed.......... result on my return downstairs, he was reading Harry Potter! 

Children should learn how to amuse themselves without the aid of electronic gadgets!!

I too am a single (geriatric) parent, and it can be very hard being both the good and bad guys but all of my friends have said that Charlie is "a credit to me" and this is highly valued praise.  Better to be a one parent family than a two parent family with an undesirable amongst the ranks (speak from experience!)

Offline Cushion Plumper

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2014, 04:43:19 PM »

I am quite strict and it never occured to me that I wouldnt punish her at home for bad behaviour at school  :o (although I have never been in that position - yet).

Now, I am thinking that a double punishment isn't fair. The schoool believes the punishment is appropriate. And, as mentioned earlier, school doesnt punish her for bad behaviour at home.   


I can see where people are coming from here and it has got me thinking too.
However, the school have no legal authority to punish for bad/poor/inappropriate behaviour elsewhere and can only deal with the issues that happen in school.  Morally and legally we, as parents, can deal with the bad behaviour wherever it happens.

My personal view is that if I believe the behaviour was worth a punishment then I will endorse my beliefs with my own punishments too, thus confirming to my son that whatever he did was not right and hope he learns from it.  I think that if I didn't back the school up on certain issues then it wouldn't give him a clear message and he could be left in a bit of limbo whether it was acceptable or not or just the school over reacting.

If he was to get arrested and cautioned for something he would still get another punishment at home too (or even possibly be hung, drawn and quartered!   ;))

I'm all in favour of him sticking up for himself if being picked on, but have to draw the line at knocking seven bells out of someone for a bit of name calling, even though I know how unpleasant that can be.  If he's hit, I don't mind him hitting back, but told him to do it once and do it hard!  That was how he knocked a lad out last year with one punch (but that was over unpleasant verbal stuff and not something I condone being dealt with by violence) but that lad has never picked on or said anything unpleasant to him again, so in my view - job done!

My concerns are - where is the cut off age if we condone violence for sorting out verbal bullying?  How can we say to our kids "it's okay to hit someone if they call you names until you are x years old, but after that you have to find another way to deal with it?"
If someone verbally abused me now, insulted me, swore at me etc and I retaliated by using violence then I would be dealt with for assault and if I was lucky, they would be dealt with for a public order offence.  However, in reality, I would probably be dealt with for assault and they would be 'the victim'.  I may get a lesser punishment for provocation, but the legal system would have expected me to either walk away and ignore it or deal with it by reporting their abuse to someone myself.  I would then have all the implications that come with having a criminal caution or conviction.  This is something I'm very mindful of with my son.  At 11 years old he can be arrested and dealt with for assault if another kids' parent was insistent and that would be something that would stick with him forever.  Believe me, that is happening quite a lot and there are many parents who won't tolerate their kids being bullied (understandably) and are using the police to deal with it rather than the schools.  That's why I'm trying my best to get him to understand that one punch/kick back is self defence, anything more may not be seen that way.  Once the police get involved it's all out of our hands from thereon  :(
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Offline WT4

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2014, 04:50:39 PM »
Yes, C/P ... lots of that makes sense ... but is additional punishment the way to reinforce the message?
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Offline Foggy

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2014, 05:39:35 PM »
In my post I mentioned that I would not introduce an additional punishment for something already dealt with at school.

That does not mean the matter is forgotten and never mentioned again. We discuss any misdemeanors and talk about what might have been a better way for O to have dealt with the situation. And he is well aware of my disappointment.

I am lucky in that, for now, he doesn't like me to be disappointed --- when he is a surly teen I might well have to re-think tactics !




Offline Stuart

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2014, 07:22:53 AM »
Yes, C/P ... lots of that makes sense ... but is additional punishment the way to reinforce the message?

I agree, it's really important to find out why, children don't hit others for no reason I am all for self defence but anything beyond that there could well be a festering issue, so extra punishment would not help, talking about it would IMO.

Stuart

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Offline mumtoattitude

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2014, 03:00:11 PM »
I agree with CP.  If police got involved then they would not be talking to him about underlying issues, they would be punishing him.  If he is raining blows, another parent could have easily called the police.  It is something that has happened in our school.  There are always awkward parents that know the school have their hands tied as to what punishment can entail, and know the parents will do nothing but talk to their kids, which in their eyes is not enough.  So they call the police.  I suppose if my child had been beaten up, I would expect the culprit to be dealt with, and not had a chat with. 

Offline WT4

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2014, 07:50:18 PM »
isn't that somewhat age dependent ... age of the child, not the parent
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Offline SallyL

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2014, 08:54:45 PM »
I have read this thread with interest.  For all my sons primary education he was in bother for one thing or another, some of it low level disruption in class, some for retaliation to bullies, some just because...

It was a nightmare, even got to the stage I would not want to stand in the school playground to pick him up as invariably he would be accompanied out with a teacher with a list of misdemeanors.    Initially my reaction was to back up the school.. "They were there, they know best, they have dealt with all this before".  I should back this up by saying my son was diagnosed with boarderline dyslexia and some issues with social interaction

There were several things that I discovered were contributory to L's behaviour.  Lack of challenge, he is a bright lad and was having to wait for the rest of the class to catch up.  bored 6 yr old boys make noise and are disruptive.... I asked for additional more in depth work for him (surely this is a no brainer the school should have done anyway).  Later when he was being bullied, I only found out as he burst into tears one morning as I was dropping him off " Mum I dont want to spend another day in XXXXXXX's room (headmistress)".  Because the bullies parents were on the governors and donated sums to the schools coffers, it was decided to segregate my son and not punish the bullies, in fear of upsetting the apple cart.     Needless to say that was the straw that broke the camels back and L never set foot in that school that day or any day after.  I also complained to the LEA and the head was retired that summer.

Fortunately this is now all behind us.  SInce getting to a decent school, and then moving on to high school (that was also with incident) I have a happy, well adjusted boy.  He still does not like school, but now because he is 13 and not because it is an ordeal.

What I am trying to say, is yes kids misbehave and that should be dealt with and in normal behaviour the school should be backed up, in whatever way you feel is appropriate.  But it is also worth remembering that kids find it hard to talk about what is going on, if things re-occur do not assume the school is right or doing the right thing.  Had I done that and made L continue to go somewhere he was miserable I dont think I would have the well adjusted, fun, loving young man I now have.   







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Offline Sqizzer

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2014, 12:49:14 AM »
Wow interesting thread. I don't know the school system or punishment levels of this country as my son is not yet two and I did not grow up here. How does the school deal with instigation and retaliation situations? Often, I can imagine, it would be at the word of the parties involved and so I guess I wonder if they punish both or decide a variable punishment for either depending on what they estimate happened?

Random - but my sister and I were NOT friends and knew exactly how to taunt each other. No matter what the stories, excuses or outcome - if we were both involved we were both equally punished. Sometimes I felt it very unfair because I was just defending myself but I understand the value of what they were trying to teach us. That both words and actions have strong consequences and you cannot get away with it just because it's not clearly crossing the line. If you intended to provoke by being mean it was just as serious as throwing something to hurt in retaliation and my parents were very strong on that front. I hope schools have the same approach or idea but understand that situations could sometimes warrant differing levels of punishment especially if there is recurring behaviour vs first time offender

Just asking out of interest really as cannot weigh in
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Offline WT4

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2014, 01:22:58 AM »
and L never set foot in that school that day or any day after

Well done Mum ... what a bl**dy awful story.  So happy to hear you got it sorted.
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Offline mumtoattitude

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2014, 03:10:07 PM »
I took my daughter out of a school when they segregated her rather than deal with the bullies.  Apparently they were a powerful group of children!  Makes you mad doesn't it

Offline Pearl

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Re: Kids punishment
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2014, 01:05:13 AM »
SallyL - Your and L's experience made me feel a bit ill just to read.  It infuriates me when people like that end up as Heads or on governing bodies.  I worked at a school where I ended up leaving because my objections to some similar practices led to me being bullied in the workplace by my head of department.  He actually told me "You can't say things like that to that girl.  Her mum is on the governing body.  I'm SURE you didn't mean to give her a disciplinary sanction, right?  Go take it back."  That and "We don't have any homosexuals in this town, so it doesn't matter if the kids call each other gay.  It isn't like it will offend anyone".  I take some pleasure in knowing that now his actions are flat out illegal and I hope he was eventually removed.  Sadly, I was powerless to do anything about it at the time.

Sqizzer - I'm in a similar situation in that I'm not from the UK and my daughter is not yet in school.  I've tried to learn lots.  Working in education helps.  But mostly just to know that it can differ from one school to the next!  Many have similar policies, but really all you can do is read each school's policy and if you can't make sense of it, insist on a copy in plain English instead of jargon!  All school's are required to have bullying, behavior and equality policies - which tend to cover most of these areas.
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